But all these things they are doing now…Look, that is why they run into trouble; when fuelling it and parking it would almost run you into bankruptcy. I am only volunteering the information to you. I don’t take glory in such.

Let me tell you, in America there s a pastor who has two jets. He preaches in Atlanta one session. By afternoon, he would be in New York for another session. In those economies, you don’t even need to put capital down; you can wet-lease, you can lease a jet and if you have a private jet, you can pay for it like you pay for a mortgage. Life is not that miserable and the interest rate is not as high. But in a depressed economy like ours, the jet represent three things: number one, a tool of business for the likes of Dangote who could afford it because they have many places to go and things to attend to at the same time; a toy for the money-miss-roads who would just think because A bought it I must buy it; or a trap from those men who would buy you and shut your mouth. So, you would have to judge which one it is. Is it a toy? Is it a tool? Or is it a trap?

What about churches building schools that their members who contributed money towards cannot attend?

Again, I don’t like to make sweeping statements. And it’s easier to be critical than to be correct. We must look back to other parts of the world. The best universities in the world that you point to today were built by Christian organisations: Emory University by Methodist Church, Anglican Church is responsible for Oxford, Cambridge universities. They had Christian foundations. The Judeo-Christian philosophy is illumination, inspiration, light, revelation and education and you see that when the missionaries came, they brought education as well as hospitals so that the people would remain healthy and they are educated so that they stop behaving like barbarians. So Christian organisations starting universities is not a crime, especially when there is need for it. However, are these universities started with church donations? If they are started with church donations, then the sons and daughters who donated the funds, we should find a way of helping the poor among them such as giving scholarships.

But if they have gone to the bank to borrow money to establish these institutions, we must find that out as well by asking questions: How did you start your university? What is the motive for it and how do you apply for licence because I don’t need one. That is not the vision God gave me and you are not likely going to find a Latter Rain University tomorrow. I do not judge others who are doing it as long as it is contributing to a beautiful landscape and contributing to the society in positive manner. If it is a business venture, then the motive will be profit.

How have you been having a scandal-free church in the last 25 years?

It was not that they didn’t try. At a time, two people went online and said Pastor Bakare is having an affair with his administrator. They said I gave money to the mother of my administrator to go to Canada. So I went straight to the Commissioner of Police and told him I was not looking for a libel suit but that I wanted a criminal proceeding. I deposed to an affidavit that if those things were true, I was ready to be punished, but if it was not so, we must take these people down. Eventually, Yinka Odumakin brought the two men who wrote such scandalous stories and said they were given the information to publish, apologised and they withdrew it. I have seen that.

Any man with a navel is not an angel. Angels don’t have navels because they were created, not born. So there’s no man who is perfect in the world. If you come close, you’ll see my faults. I’m human, I get angry but I don’t let my anger lead me into destructive things. I like order, I like excellence. If you work around me, you might think, “Is this man a slave driver?” Because I set goals and by God’s grace, I achieve them.

But those things like scandals and other things that happen in other churches won’t happen here. There was water inside coconut before it rained. Before I came into ministry, there are people who can testify, senior pastors and others, who knew that God had blessed me before I came into ministry. I don’t say such words like I am a millionaire. You won’t hear me say so because I am a steward, I am not the owner. A steward cannot claim ownership. Even talking about millions, when did I make the first one? How old was I? Over 30 years ago. Someone saw me in the plane and said: “You have been flying first class since 1985” and I said, By the grace of God, that’s where I belong. Not out of pride but I fly so frequently, so often that I criss-cross. As I am talking to you now, in the next few days after the declaration by General Buhari, I am leaving the country that night to be back on the 21st October. I live within my means.

The head of our treasury department here is the managing director of a bank. So, do you want to do deals with such a person? You will never find anything negative. Every money belonging to the ministry goes into the account of the ministry. There is a special department of the church that would do a budget and every expenditure, you can trace it. And auditors come here to audit every year and we file all those accounts with government.

This church has been a blessing to me. Many people have given me things that I don’t even think I deserve. But I thank God for this. But truth be told, I want to join the class of Samuel who testified before God and the people of Israel and asked, ‘Whose gold have I taken so that I will give it back to you?’ And they said none. I want to be in the class of Paul who said: “I have coveted no man’s gold, I coveted no man’s silver, I coveted no man’s apparel, these my hands have provided for my necessities.’

And in my interaction with politicians, I received a tribute from Mr. President few days ago, and he said whether in public or in private, I have rebuked and encouraged and have never taken one kobo. So scandals don’t come to you except you invite them. Curb your greed and serve God and serve the people.

You have always maintained that the judgment of God would begin from the church…

Yes. It is not me that maintains, it is the Bible that says so.